It definitely felt 'privileged'. At least she acknowledged that, and at least she's speaking from her own experience rather than that of all women
*nodnodnod*
so I can appreciate that even if I don't feel that she's speaking for me
I agree, though I have to say - and this is not a good thing - I don't mean this politically, but emotionally - I seriously don;t expect this sort of thing to speak for me, I don't consider that an option, on some rare occasions that happened, sometimes it made me happy, sometimes it just made me feel very emotional and exposed. It's just so rare I don't think about it, hardly ever, you know?
I come across quite a few intelligent and educated men who either don't think feminism is relevant to them, or have really obsolete views on it
Yeah... and most of the truly rare and wonderful ones don't make it past knowing more correct feminist concepts, and not acting disrespectfully. Which is great - so so great, and unusual - but it doesn't really develop the conversation. "Everybody stop and be grateful that a guy was nice"... I really want to believe I'm being mean and unjust, and I do believe this is in the precess of changing, but at the moment - I just don't want to spend any more of my energy giving people the benefit of doubt over and over again. And if that means I am "man hating", I'm kinda OK with that ... I'm not here to be nice or available if I don't want to. Also, so many men have done such nasty things to me and to people I care about - it's kinda amazing how man-loving so many people are!
Why should we refer to some women as 'inadvertent' feminists? That whole argument makes little sense to me.
I agree, that was weird for me too. Is it 'inadvertently' condescending? Perhaps these are people who don't identify as feminists, or she felt she needed to differentiate them from the image of the fighting feminist activist? That was odd.
There are women with different skin colours and women with different sexualities and women with all kinds of backgrounds, many of whom don't have access to privileged spaces. And I think that people of all genders start off being conditioned to act and think a certain way in their own individual spaces, and that there's no one solution can fit everyone's situation.
I very much agree.
But people who identify as 100% straight male - not so much. And sometimes it can be exhausting to interact with straight women too, especially the ones who don't know I'm queer, or worse, know and choose to ignore it.
*nods* I get that.
Fannish spaces are good that way - most of the straight people here aren't homophobic
Ooh, fandom... on one hand, it's so fantastic, and people here are definitely way more open minded and educated about social issues that so many other places... but I have serious issues (=hurt) with "social issues " so often being considered "wank" and not legitimate topic. I want fandom to be pleasant for everyone too, I do, but if Jensen's gonna refuse to take a question cause the person asking identified as bisexual, or Jared's gonna talk reverse racism - that makes fandom an unpleasant space for quite a few people. Can't people at least be compassionate about that? On top being hurt by that, to also be blamed and chastised by my fandom family - that hurts even more. And it's such privilege, for it to be "not a big deal" for you. This is utterly personal, for some. And yeah, I get it if someone needs to stay away from these discussions - I have several triggers of my own - but that's not the same thing. Not long ago some fan told me that if I, as a trans* person, wanted to have representations of people (any person) like me as subjects in media, all I needed to do was get off my ass and make it big in Hollywood, get funding and get past censorship, and voila! And that people who don't or can't do that should at least not blame poor Jensen for their personal failure. It's moments like that...
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2014-09-25 08:09 pm (UTC)*nodnodnod*
so I can appreciate that even if I don't feel that she's speaking for me
I agree, though I have to say - and this is not a good thing - I don't mean this politically, but emotionally - I seriously don;t expect this sort of thing to speak for me, I don't consider that an option, on some rare occasions that happened, sometimes it made me happy, sometimes it just made me feel very emotional and exposed. It's just so rare I don't think about it, hardly ever, you know?
I come across quite a few intelligent and educated men who either don't think feminism is relevant to them, or have really obsolete views on it
Yeah... and most of the truly rare and wonderful ones don't make it past knowing more correct feminist concepts, and not acting disrespectfully. Which is great - so so great, and unusual - but it doesn't really develop the conversation. "Everybody stop and be grateful that a guy was nice"... I really want to believe I'm being mean and unjust, and I do believe this is in the precess of changing, but at the moment - I just don't want to spend any more of my energy giving people the benefit of doubt over and over again. And if that means I am "man hating", I'm kinda OK with that ... I'm not here to be nice or available if I don't want to. Also, so many men have done such nasty things to me and to people I care about - it's kinda amazing how man-loving so many people are!
Why should we refer to some women as 'inadvertent' feminists? That whole argument makes little sense to me.
I agree, that was weird for me too. Is it 'inadvertently' condescending? Perhaps these are people who don't identify as feminists, or she felt she needed to differentiate them from the image of the fighting feminist activist? That was odd.
There are women with different skin colours and women with different sexualities and women with all kinds of backgrounds, many of whom don't have access to privileged spaces. And I think that people of all genders start off being conditioned to act and think a certain way in their own individual spaces, and that there's no one solution can fit everyone's situation.
I very much agree.
But people who identify as 100% straight male - not so much. And sometimes it can be exhausting to interact with straight women too, especially the ones who don't know I'm queer, or worse, know and choose to ignore it.
*nods*
I get that.
Fannish spaces are good that way - most of the straight people here aren't homophobic
Ooh, fandom... on one hand, it's so fantastic, and people here are definitely way more open minded and educated about social issues that so many other places...
but I have serious issues (=hurt) with "social issues " so often being considered "wank" and not legitimate topic. I want fandom to be pleasant for everyone too, I do, but if Jensen's gonna refuse to take a question cause the person asking identified as bisexual, or Jared's gonna talk reverse racism - that makes fandom an unpleasant space for quite a few people. Can't people at least be compassionate about that? On top being hurt by that, to also be blamed and chastised by my fandom family - that hurts even more. And it's such privilege, for it to be "not a big deal" for you. This is utterly personal, for some. And yeah, I get it if someone needs to stay away from these discussions - I have several triggers of my own - but that's not the same thing.
Not long ago some fan told me that if I, as a trans* person, wanted to have representations of people (any person) like me as subjects in media, all I needed to do was get off my ass and make it big in Hollywood, get funding and get past censorship, and voila! And that people who don't or can't do that should at least not blame poor Jensen for their personal failure. It's moments like that...