My problem isn't so much with not understanding Sam to begin with , but with the show kinda backing up and saying "no, those reasons were stupid and invalid", which leaves me hoping for other reasons, then. I was a little disoriented and surprised when Show didn't even touch on that possibility, and just chalked it up to "he was wrong *and* that was completely obvious from moment 1 *and* he was led on *and* an addict *and* it wasn't about doing something good, it was all *revenge*". Oh, *and* he brought on the apocalypse. Which, btw, Dean did too. And John. There wasn't even a moment of "But it was *also* a good choice".
I found Sam relatable because it makes sense to me to not assume a whole huge group of beings are inherently evil and should be always killed on sight. *Especially* when you are part of that group/when the person you love most in the world is part of that group. And it makes sense to build trust, to learn about yourself as part of that group, especially since it's coming out whether you like it or not, in dreams and in your body, no matter how much you try to control it and push it down or away. For other reasons too, but that, for a start.
But the show didn't back any of that. The conclusion was just admonishment. So if it was just Sam being weak, stupid and vengeful – I want better explanations as to why.
The way Sam treats Dean - I really could understand that. I have trouble calling it inexcusable… He was doing everything he could, and so focused on being not ok, cause Dean focused on that (and Sam never had much of a chance to develop himself as a person who got to decide what "the issue" was). Sam needs Dean's approval. He is always under Dean's inspection, always worried about Dean's judgement. Sam spent his life looking up at Dean. He tries not to be "the little brother" , but he doesn't know how to see Dean as someone that can be broken, especially since Dean keeps making it very clear he isn't.
Even just imagining that "the right thing to do" would be going against everything Dean's saying, the way Dean explains the world, Sam, their power balance - it's a huge deal to even grasp that it could be possible. I remember I once was sexually harassed at work and filed a complaint. Despite years of feminism, I felt like *the worst person of earth* for being so petty, so mean, ruining the pleasant atmosphere and so forth - even though of course it a fucked up way of seeing things. And that was with plenty of advantages, and with people I'd only know for a couple of months. Dean is Sam's *life*. Sam's worldviews are built around and according to Dean. His rebellions are tiny, and even they shook both his and Dean's world very frighteningly. Dean still hadn't forgiven Sam for leaving, still feels so insecure. So it's a huge leap, to even imagine to change the power balance between - that it's an option, that he could do it and how, and that it could be what Dean needs. It is so so hard to know what people need.
And even when he sees Dean is not ok – he tries, but he doesn't have any tools for dealing with that. Frankly, even had Sam been fantastic at that and had every known tool – what do you do with someone who was tortured for 30 years and them tortured others for another ten? The show didn't deal with it either. It's too big. How do you even approach that? Especially while running and fighting and trying to save each other and the world under an inhuman amount of pressure !
Long story short, there's really nothing Sam does in S4 that I can't picture myself doing.
Seconded. I hope no one kills us :P
'America, fuck yeah!' monster killing
LOL
not a criticism: Aliens is one of my favorite movies
Honestly, I do criticize that, often. And I want to understand the other side of this better.
It acknowledges that there's moral complexity, and that the world is fucked up, but then concludes that mostly you're just going to have to live with it
Mm, I see what you mean. Thanks :)
Ooh, interesting point, about the Gods. I skipped what you wrote about B5, I'm still somewhere in the middle of it, but - ogh – good and very disturbing points.
no subject
I found Sam relatable because it makes sense to me to not assume a whole huge group of beings are inherently evil and should be always killed on sight. *Especially* when you are part of that group/when the person you love most in the world is part of that group. And it makes sense to build trust, to learn about yourself as part of that group, especially since it's coming out whether you like it or not, in dreams and in your body, no matter how much you try to control it and push it down or away.
For other reasons too, but that, for a start.
But the show didn't back any of that. The conclusion was just admonishment.
So if it was just Sam being weak, stupid and vengeful – I want better explanations as to why.
The way Sam treats Dean -
I really could understand that. I have trouble calling it inexcusable…
He was doing everything he could, and so focused on being not ok, cause Dean focused on that (and Sam never had much of a chance to develop himself as a person who got to decide what "the issue" was). Sam needs Dean's approval. He is always under Dean's inspection, always worried about Dean's judgement. Sam spent his life looking up at Dean. He tries not to be "the little brother" , but he doesn't know how to see Dean as someone that can be broken, especially since Dean keeps making it very clear he isn't.
Even just imagining that "the right thing to do" would be going against everything Dean's saying, the way Dean explains the world, Sam, their power balance - it's a huge deal to even grasp that it could be possible. I remember I once was sexually harassed at work and filed a complaint. Despite years of feminism, I felt like *the worst person of earth* for being so petty, so mean, ruining the pleasant atmosphere and so forth - even though of course it a fucked up way of seeing things. And that was with plenty of advantages, and with people I'd only know for a couple of months. Dean is Sam's *life*. Sam's worldviews are built around and according to Dean. His rebellions are tiny, and even they shook both his and Dean's world very frighteningly. Dean still hadn't forgiven Sam for leaving, still feels so insecure. So it's a huge leap, to even imagine to change the power balance between - that it's an option, that he could do it and how, and that it could be what Dean needs. It is so so hard to know what people need.
And even when he sees Dean is not ok – he tries, but he doesn't have any tools for dealing with that. Frankly, even had Sam been fantastic at that and had every known tool – what do you do with someone who was tortured for 30 years and them tortured others for another ten? The show didn't deal with it either. It's too big. How do you even approach that? Especially while running and fighting and trying to save each other and the world under an inhuman amount of pressure !
Long story short, there's really nothing Sam does in S4 that I can't picture myself doing.
Seconded.
I hope no one kills us :P
'America, fuck yeah!' monster killing
LOL
not a criticism: Aliens is one of my favorite movies
Honestly, I do criticize that, often. And I want to understand the other side of this better.
It acknowledges that there's moral complexity, and that the world is fucked up, but then concludes that mostly you're just going to have to live with it
Mm, I see what you mean.
Thanks :)
Ooh, interesting point, about the Gods.
I skipped what you wrote about B5, I'm still somewhere in the middle of it, but - ogh – good and very disturbing points.