he'd definitely choose how to have sex that was safe or you know, where the girl didn't die afterward :)
*chortle* I didn't think of that!
Sam learning that in college - Yeah, I can see that too. He says some of the right things (not necessarily my cup of feminism, but some cup), like pointing out Dean is mixing up reality and porn. And he says some horrible things, not really realizing it - like someone who took a bunch of courses, but perhaps didn't really understand it too deeply, understand that it was about him and about everyone, not jsut about some women somewhere. I mean - when he tells Dean not to confuse reality with porn, it sounds to me like "behave", rather than "This approach actively oppresses women, and I care about that".
I'm having trouble imagining what would get Sam to choose such courses in the first place, though, I hope it's a more interesting reason than for a girl. I've said it before - I prefer Dean's heart and usually-not-that-harmful remarks to Sam's approach. In my feminist circles I can see Dean getting along with people more easily, and Sam being scrutinized, unless he came with his best careful attentive heartfelt compassion (he has that mode, but doesn't always use it). Cause they're gonna expect him to reexamine his own behavior, approach, privileges etc. And I'm not sure he'd do that for feminism, though I know and lovelovelove the place in him where he honestly does that (why isn't that in more fic? The man's sleeping with his brother FFS! If there ever was a moment to reexamine your core beliefs about society and your own identity...)
Dean... is pretty open minded under the bullshit. Definitely less into the current social order. For all Dean flirts and has sex with random people, it seems like he does see them as people, or at least sees them as more than usable holes. He looks into people's eyes, he submits, there is more there..Perhaps because he has such a strong need for approval. I dont' remember him ever saying anything bad about a woman's body, and though that really doesn't make him a prince, to me it means he doesn't see himself - like so many guys - as if it's his place to judge who's good enough, and so forth. I don't remember his trying to assert himself at the expense of others, or putting people down - except when it's about the job, or it's Sam and it's more complex. Perhaps it's his low self esteem, but low self esteem can also go in the opposite direction and be horrible. For all he hides it, Dean's willingness to be vulnerable, his sensitivity, how much he cares, would win him more points with most feminists I know, than Sam's slight anti-porn awareness :-) So I can see Sam frustrated, amused, annoyed and so forth, by that. Though he's catch on in a heartbeat, he wouldn't be the idiot going around trying to impress with lines he doesn't completely even understand, not Sammy. He's too smart and too sensitive for that by far.
it could be tricky but done well I think it would be awesome Now I just need someone who'd want to write the fic :-) Hey, I'll even make podfic for it in return!
no subject
*chortle*
I didn't think of that!
Sam learning that in college -
Yeah, I can see that too. He says some of the right things (not necessarily my cup of feminism, but some cup), like pointing out Dean is mixing up reality and porn. And he says some horrible things, not really realizing it - like someone who took a bunch of courses, but perhaps didn't really understand it too deeply, understand that it was about him and about everyone, not jsut about some women somewhere. I mean - when he tells Dean not to confuse reality with porn, it sounds to me like "behave", rather than "This approach actively oppresses women, and I care about that".
I'm having trouble imagining what would get Sam to choose such courses in the first place, though, I hope it's a more interesting reason than for a girl. I've said it before - I prefer Dean's heart and usually-not-that-harmful remarks to Sam's approach. In my feminist circles I can see Dean getting along with people more easily, and Sam being scrutinized, unless he came with his best careful attentive heartfelt compassion (he has that mode, but doesn't always use it). Cause they're gonna expect him to reexamine his own behavior, approach, privileges etc. And I'm not sure he'd do that for feminism, though I know and lovelovelove the place in him where he honestly does that (why isn't that in more fic? The man's sleeping with his brother FFS! If there ever was a moment to reexamine your core beliefs about society and your own identity...)
Dean... is pretty open minded under the bullshit. Definitely less into the current social order. For all Dean flirts and has sex with random people, it seems like he does see them as people, or at least sees them as more than usable holes. He looks into people's eyes, he submits, there is more there..Perhaps because he has such a strong need for approval. I dont' remember him ever saying anything bad about a woman's body, and though that really doesn't make him a prince, to me it means he doesn't see himself - like so many guys - as if it's his place to judge who's good enough, and so forth. I don't remember his trying to assert himself at the expense of others, or putting people down - except when it's about the job, or it's Sam and it's more complex. Perhaps it's his low self esteem, but low self esteem can also go in the opposite direction and be horrible. For all he hides it, Dean's willingness to be vulnerable, his sensitivity, how much he cares, would win him more points with most feminists I know, than Sam's slight anti-porn awareness :-)
So I can see Sam frustrated, amused, annoyed and so forth, by that.
Though he's catch on in a heartbeat, he wouldn't be the idiot going around trying to impress with lines he doesn't completely even understand, not Sammy. He's too smart and too sensitive for that by far.
it could be tricky but done well I think it would be awesome
Now I just need someone who'd want to write the fic :-)
Hey, I'll even make podfic for it in return!