Dean didn't want to be a hunter till he was 16?

[citrusjava]

Rewatched part of Bloodlust. In it, Dean says he "embraced the life" at 16.

I wonder what Dean was like before the hunt that changed his attitude toward hunting. Did he have doubts but didn't share them? Didn't want to do it but stayed quiet? Did John take him on the hunt that changed his mind because he noticed something?

Perhaps Dean wasn't always the good kid, perhaps he ever said no to John, yelled at him? Perhaps it wasn't just Sammy? Perhaps Sam was too young to be as confrontational and rebellious as later, perhaps he was the good kid for a while.

DEAN
... So. I pick up this crossbow. And I hit that ugly sucker with a silver-tipped arrow right in his heart. Sammy's waiting in the car, and uh, me and my dad take the thing into the woods, burn it to a crisp. I'm sitting there and looking into the fire, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm sixteen years old. Most kids my age are worried about pimples, prom dates. I'm seeing things that they'll never even know. Never even dream of. So right then, I just sort of -

GORDON
Embraced the life?

DEAN
Yeah.

Thanks, Superwiki!

Comments

[nickelmountain.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I think that before Dean was sixteen, most of his identity and time was occupied with parenting Sam. Sixteen is right about the time when Sam would have been more self-sufficient and Dean would have been craving more freedom. As Sam needed Dean less and less, Dean shifted his identity from being like his mother to being like his father. I think part of what makes Dean so interesting to me is the way he integrated both parents into his identity. He actively and at least partly consciously took on both roles and aspects of both personalities.

I think when he was looking into the fire after that hunt, Dean was thinking about the kind of future that was possible for a guy like him, and who he could be once Sam didn't need him all the time anymore. If he couldn't be Mary anymore, all that was left for him was being John.

If Dean ever did yell at John, I'll bet it was about Sam. And while I'm intrigued by the idea of Sam as the good kid and Dean as the rebel (you're right, there should be fic!), I have a really hard time seeing Sam as anything but a snotty kid. But maybe my mind has just been poisoned by the fandom. Sam is ALWAYS portrayed as kind of a snot. :/

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I got the impression that Dean always sided with John and was very gung-ho about the hunting lifestyle until he first started having doubts around late season 1/season 2 time

I assumed that Dean saying he fully embraced the life at 16 is referring to the first time that he went on an actual hunt. John generally left Dean behind to look after Sammy when he went on hunts, so that time with the crossbow was when he first ~became~ a hunter so to speak.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I don't see Sam standing up to John as a bad thing at all!

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that was a problem people had with him.

I agree, kids can be so so annoying. And I'm OK with it in fic, it's just such a partial picture of Sam, imo. I just don't like when characters are written as being (rather than perceived as) only one way, in order to make other characters look better. Except for when it's awesome. And when I'm the one doing it ;-)

Just like you said, re John. Just don't turn him into just one thing...

I personally relate to it a lot. I annoyed the crap out of my older sister when we were kids, and that can't have been much fun for my parents, either

LOL <3


When I think of the pre-series fic I love, so much of it is about the tension that had to have existed between the three of them

I love that too, so much! And I agree with your interpretation of the relationship, and I like fic in which John is complex. He was in a horrible position, losing his whole life like that. I love Candle_Beck's and Roque-Clasique's Johns. And I'm developing a taste for fic about him and the boys, the complex relationship there. And there should be more fic that takes place during the few episodes they were around each other. Which I should rewatch, cause I don't really remember.

The Long Narrow Rope

Sounds really good, thanks for the rec!

I think it was probably pretty clear to John that Dean wanted his approval

I wonder if he realized that means Dean actually, emotionally, needed that approval, and that it meant he had a certain responsibility to address that need. He may have stopped at thinking his side of things, without really realizing how it influenced Dean.

and I think he approved of Dean falling in line with him in terms of obedience and hunting because he saw it as the best way to keep the family together and safe, but I think he also knew that Dean loving classic rock and muscle cars didn't actually make him a carbon copy of John. Dean was the easier kid for John in a lot of ways, but if he'd actually been more like John in terms of temperament and personality, that wouldn't have been true anymore. So no, I don't think he really wanted Dean to be like him. I think he might have wished Sam was more like Dean, though. Which, yeah, not fair to Sam, either.

Agreed.

I don't think Dean really understood who John was as a person until his mid-to-late 20's, during the run of the show. His hero worship got in the way before that. But I do think he might have seen himself as a bridge between Sam and John.


I agree. I loved the way they talked about it around meeting Henry.

I think this is the calculus he might have done (pardon my made-up notations): [If] Sam loves Dean, [And] John and Dean get along, [And] Dean is like John, [Then] Sam and John should get along.

Hee!
I think he felt he needed his family, and never imagined an option to the others getting along, to Sam being there.
Hmm, did he ever choose Sam over John? Or did John just not give him a choice?


Oh man, thinking about Winchester family dynamics hurts. It's so hard and so sad. I love it. :P


Aww. *hugs*

Accepting that Sam standing up for himself is a good thing, how would you show those conflicts from John and/or Dean's perspective in a way that doesn't feel to you like a criticism or condemnation of Sam?

Oh, I pretty much agree with you, and seems like most fic I read is also somewhere along those lines. I suppose as long as I stick to Wincest, there's not likely to be a whole lot of Sam hate. It's stepping out that is sometimes hazardous, but a lot of times it's all right too.

[jacyevans.livejournal.com]

I always interpreted it as until that point, he was somewhat hesitant to be a hunter - his dad went away and left him and his brother alone, probably often came back injured - and he was also wrapped up in taking care of Sam. Whatever happened on this hunt was kind of the "AHA!" moment that made him realize "Hey, maybe this is something good after all."

As an aside, I agree with being annoyed with all the Sam is a snot that fandom produces. I'm currently working on a pre-series fic that is turning into something pretty epic, and getting into Sam's headspace is really, really interesting to me, because it's forcing me to analyze not just his motivations for leaving, but everyone else's for letting him walk out the door.