I think the fandom switch from top!Dean to bottom!Dean happened around S3 and S4, where Dean was very psychologically vulnerable, and Sam was increasingly BAMF in trying to first save and then avenge him. Plus, Jared grew into his height around S3--he stopped being "gawky kid" and started being "Greek god."
Mmmmm, I understand.
And a lot of people associate topping with size and muscularity.
Yeah... (though topping strong bottoms - OK, no, Domming strong subs - can be so fun!)
I don't care who physically tops/bottoms in fic, but it bothers me when it's treated as a characterization rather than a matter of sexual taste.
Hear, hear. Exactly. Or, if it's a characteristic, it should be considered the fetish/BDSM/kink/whatever that it probably is, and a fact of bottoming/topping... even if it's a way of working out emotional issues between the characters, it's more interesting if not considered an obvious fact.
Uh, I love relationship negotiations in fic.
The thinking seems to be: being penetrated = being a girl = being weak, which is messed up at every step
Thank you! And that sucks for everyone, for people who are and aren't penetrated, or weak, or girls!
Plus, fandom blurs the lines between bottoming and subbing in a way I find problematic
YES! And also between being penetrated, and being passive, or - the one handled, or whatever, even without being submissive. As if you couldn't Dom someone while being penetrated. As if you couldn't sub while being ridden to desperation.
I love fics where sexual roles are negotiated, like you said, and I wish that happened more often. I'm a sucker for fic where people talk about sex in a believable, non "Very Special Episode" kind of way
Yesyesyesyes...
And it's cool that all the big pairings in SPN fandom have at least some variety in who tops
It's so great, I love that. And that there is so much fic in which that just isn't an issue.
Since it's such a huge deal, apparently, I'm sorta waiting for the fic in which after years of UST and angsty crushing on each other, the boys (any SPN boys) reach the expected make out session, but freeze as they realize they both were going for the same position. Somehow, that just drains all the passion and fantasy out of it. "Me? Top/Bottom? Really?" thinks each of them. Sam can see the gray, moist cloud of indifference he feels in his throat settle over Dean's face. He searches for word to - "You wanna-" Dean gestures towards the ancient motel TV. "Yeah, there's a-" Sam clambers for something - "a monster truck-" Dean provides - "Yeah". Dean grabs the cold pizza box, to occupy his hands. "You want some-" - "No, no, no no", Sam clarifies. They settle in to watch, each on their respective bed.
On a selfish level, I wish there was more non-penetrative sex where top/bottom isn't an issue. I mean, I enjoy lots of fics with anal, and have written several, but I wish there were more where handjobs/oral/intercrural/whatever was the main course instead of just foreplay.
I like non-penetrative (and creatively penetrative) too. I find those in Wincest rather often, if you like I'll gladly send them your way sometimes
no subject
Mmmmm, I understand.
And a lot of people associate topping with size and muscularity.
Yeah...
(though topping strong bottoms - OK, no, Domming strong subs - can be so fun!)
I don't care who physically tops/bottoms in fic, but it bothers me when it's treated as a characterization rather than a matter of sexual taste.
Hear, hear. Exactly. Or, if it's a characteristic, it should be considered the fetish/BDSM/kink/whatever that it probably is, and a fact of bottoming/topping... even if it's a way of working out emotional issues between the characters, it's more interesting if not considered an obvious fact.
Uh, I love relationship negotiations in fic.
The thinking seems to be: being penetrated = being a girl = being weak, which is messed up at every step
Thank you! And that sucks for everyone, for people who are and aren't penetrated, or weak, or girls!
Plus, fandom blurs the lines between bottoming and subbing in a way I find problematic
YES! And also between being penetrated, and being passive, or - the one handled, or whatever, even without being submissive. As if you couldn't Dom someone while being penetrated. As if you couldn't sub while being ridden to desperation.
I love fics where sexual roles are negotiated, like you said, and I wish that happened more often. I'm a sucker for fic where people talk about sex in a believable, non "Very Special Episode" kind of way
Yesyesyesyes...
And it's cool that all the big pairings in SPN fandom have at least some variety in who tops
It's so great, I love that. And that there is so much fic in which that just isn't an issue.
Since it's such a huge deal, apparently, I'm sorta waiting for the fic in which after years of UST and angsty crushing on each other, the boys (any SPN boys) reach the expected make out session, but freeze as they realize they both were going for the same position. Somehow, that just drains all the passion and fantasy out of it. "Me? Top/Bottom? Really?" thinks each of them. Sam can see the gray, moist cloud of indifference he feels in his throat settle over Dean's face. He searches for word to - "You wanna-" Dean gestures towards the ancient motel TV. "Yeah, there's a-" Sam clambers for something - "a monster truck-" Dean provides - "Yeah". Dean grabs the cold pizza box, to occupy his hands. "You want some-" - "No, no, no no", Sam clarifies. They settle in to watch, each on their respective bed.
On a selfish level, I wish there was more non-penetrative sex where top/bottom isn't an issue. I mean, I enjoy lots of fics with anal, and have written several, but I wish there were more where handjobs/oral/intercrural/whatever was the main course instead of just foreplay.
I like non-penetrative (and creatively penetrative) too. I find those in Wincest rather often, if you like I'll gladly send them your way sometimes