You sound like me in my academic career, trying to convince my fellow feminists not to overlook the transformative and revolutionary power of domesticity. :)
:D Sounds interesting! And I do related things in my (budding) academic career, too! *high fives* I never know who I can just say "you know, all that second wavey stuff" to, and move on, so I try to avoid doing it, I hate it when people academic-speak to me about things I could have understood had they been put otherwise :)
People seem to skip over the fact that the stories he has distilled into this series of progressions are all about Men. It is literally the Hero's Journey and I'm not sure we can really just lift the template and slide it to the left and expect Women Heroes to fit their Journeys into it.
*nodnodnod* I suspect they don't fit a lot of men, either.
There are infinite ways humans can band together, not just one man one woman, and not all relationships lead to kids, but why does the woman's story have to end if kids occur? that's insane, yet, our storytelling as a culture isn't ready to take on much beyond the youthful Man Hero's Journey.
I agree. I have some trouble with traditional family stories, because of my own needs and my own issues, which I want to get to see in culture too. but I very much agree that the "having children" story is very unfairly told, if at all. Romantic relationships, for instance, can be idealized and revisited, and are never considered a boring waste of a life. Why are they any more meaningful or interesting than raising a person? To me, raising someone seems like one of the scariest, most demanding, fascinating and perhaps total sorts of connection. There have to be good stories in there, adventures too. One of the things I like about SPN / SPN fanon (and another thing it weirdly has in common with Gilmore Girls - I collect those :)) is that it deals with those issues, a bit.
I am of the opinion that Supernatural has been explicitly exploring the nature of how Men are hurt by forcing them into these hypermasculine roles... excluding them from the daylight civilian sphere of women
I agree. Actually, I was amused with a thing that happened to me with the show, regarding that - literally the same week I turned in a paper claiming that Dean will probably never have a real conversation with a woman he respected, he did :) I think it's still mostly true, about the show in general, but that made me laugh :)
You big bang sound really awesome! And your long-term project is interesting, and ambitious, wow!
Personally I'm a little ambivalent about female characters in canon. I hate how undeveloped they are, as you said, especially compared to the beautifully complex main characters. But there is potential to them, and fanfic authors often make them so much more interesting and wonderful. I've been grumbly about female character on the show as my official stand for a while, but I have to admit I'm enjoying the amazing change (imo) in them since the beginning of season 8, give or take. I adore Meg since Goodbye Stranger, and I very much like Abaddon, Charlie and Linda Tran (such a pity she didn't have a bigger role). I believe it's a result of a conscious effort to make the show less male-centered (and a less successful effort to make it less straight and white). Robbie Thompson's episodes, in particular, seem to persistently include that.
[lj is telling me to stop jabbering, so I'll cut this shorter] One of my favorite side characters of all time of SPN is Lisa Braeden's neighbor, Annette, who drowned her daughter's changeling replacement. !!!!
Wow, I forgot all about that! Interesting!
And Ruby - the more fandom talks about her, the more amazing she seems.
Also, I think Joss was really trying to engage some of these issues about strength in powerlessness and vulnerability in Dollhouse, but no one seemed to want to hear how that story might go
Much Ado is on my short "to watch" list. Working on it. As for Dollhouse - I agree.
no subject
:)
:D
Sounds interesting!
And I do related things in my (budding) academic career, too! *high fives*
I never know who I can just say "you know, all that second wavey stuff" to, and move on, so I try to avoid doing it, I hate it when people academic-speak to me about things I could have understood had they been put otherwise :)
People seem to skip over the fact that the stories he has distilled into this series of progressions are all about Men. It is literally the Hero's Journey and I'm not sure we can really just lift the template and slide it to the left and expect Women Heroes to fit their Journeys into it.
*nodnodnod*
I suspect they don't fit a lot of men, either.
There are infinite ways humans can band together, not just one man one woman, and not all relationships lead to kids, but why does the woman's story have to end if kids occur? that's insane, yet, our storytelling as a culture isn't ready to take on much beyond the youthful Man Hero's Journey.
I agree. I have some trouble with traditional family stories, because of my own needs and my own issues, which I want to get to see in culture too. but I very much agree that the "having children" story is very unfairly told, if at all. Romantic relationships, for instance, can be idealized and revisited, and are never considered a boring waste of a life. Why are they any more meaningful or interesting than raising a person? To me, raising someone seems like one of the scariest, most demanding, fascinating and perhaps total sorts of connection. There have to be good stories in there, adventures too. One of the things I like about SPN / SPN fanon (and another thing it weirdly has in common with Gilmore Girls - I collect those :)) is that it deals with those issues, a bit.
I am of the opinion that Supernatural has been explicitly exploring the nature of how Men are hurt by forcing them into these hypermasculine roles... excluding them from the daylight civilian sphere of women
I agree. Actually, I was amused with a thing that happened to me with the show, regarding that - literally the same week I turned in a paper claiming that Dean will probably never have a real conversation with a woman he respected, he did :)
I think it's still mostly true, about the show in general, but that made me laugh :)
You big bang sound really awesome! And your long-term project is interesting, and ambitious, wow!
Personally I'm a little ambivalent about female characters in canon. I hate how undeveloped they are, as you said, especially compared to the beautifully complex main characters. But there is potential to them, and fanfic authors often make them so much more interesting and wonderful. I've been grumbly about female character on the show as my official stand for a while, but I have to admit I'm enjoying the amazing change (imo) in them since the beginning of season 8, give or take. I adore Meg since Goodbye Stranger, and I very much like Abaddon, Charlie and Linda Tran (such a pity she didn't have a bigger role). I believe it's a result of a conscious effort to make the show less male-centered (and a less successful effort to make it less straight and white). Robbie Thompson's episodes, in particular, seem to persistently include that.
[lj is telling me to stop jabbering, so I'll cut this shorter]
One of my favorite side characters of all time of SPN is Lisa Braeden's neighbor, Annette, who drowned her daughter's changeling replacement. !!!!
Wow, I forgot all about that! Interesting!
And Ruby - the more fandom talks about her, the more amazing she seems.
Also, I think Joss was really trying to engage some of these issues about strength in powerlessness and vulnerability in Dollhouse, but no one seemed to want to hear how that story might go
Much Ado is on my short "to watch" list. Working on it. As for Dollhouse - I agree.