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citrusjavaJohn was abandoned by his father when he was a child. Who knows what he experienced in the meanwhile, but then his beloved was killed. By the way he dealed with her death, perhaps he never got too good at dealing with loss. Looks like his way of dealing was not grieving, and revenge.
When Dean lost him mom, perhaps he put all his energy into the people around him, his brother, particularly. I can imagine baby Dean thinking - as miserable and lost as I'm feeling, baby Sammy is even worst off. And putting all he had into making things good for Sammy. The way, perhaps, John was too grief stricken to be for Dean. To talk it through, to validate Dean's feelings. So, perhaps, to Dean, dealing with loss was mostly about taking care of others, or trying to make things OK. Perhaps the way he sort of turned into a substitute mary was a way of making her not gone, for John, for baby Sammy, and though he'd probably not admit him, for Dean too.
When sam left for Stanford, the other Winchesters seem to have dealt with it in a similar way. John told Sam that, basically, "he was dead to him" - if you leave, never come back. Perhaps he was reliving the way his father left him, the way Mary did. .. perhaps that was his way of dealing with sam's message, that Dean was dying - pulling back, perhaps being mad - at Dean, at whoever did it to him, probably at Sam for telling john about it, for suddenly being there after hurting john so much by leaving, and for giving john grief for *John* not being there, after all those years Sam wasn't.
Dean dealt with Sam leaving, perhaps, by taking extra care of John. Prhaps he was more like Sam when Sam was gone, like he did with mary - I wonder. But the main way he dealt with Sam being gone is making it not be, not so. He brought Sam back into Dean's life from Stanford. Brought Sam back into Dean's life from death. It didn't matter what the price was for Dean, the way it perhaps didn't matter how Dean felt about taking care of this baby instead of giving his own feelings room
But, of course, it was all about Dean's feelings - he needed Sammy back even if Dean was gonna be gone - he needed to fix that abandonment. If Dean himself was leaving, it wasn't that bad. If he was leaving, it's a bit like it had been his choice - and since he made the deal - it was.
As for Sam, I always got the feeling he dealt with grief better than the others. Not sure how. That is why the whole "he's just like John now" thing didn't exactly work for me. I had the feeling he dealt with what happened to Jess betterthan John had. That perhaps John became a hunter to stay sort-of-together, Sam did it perhaps out of guilt, missing being part of his family, missing Dean. OTOH, I always feel when Sam left, he didn't truly let go of his family. He didn't grieve and become a different person. Not at all. Part of being away was knowing he could call Dean and get back. Knowing at any moment Dean could come get him, and like it or not, Sam will go. Perhaps it wsa, like many writers say, a way of not having to deal, daily, with the dread of John or Dean being killed. But I am pretty sure he was still dealing with that dread, along with major guilt - even guilt in advance, knowing that if they got killed part of him will blame himself, and waiting for that blow. He was trying to build something else for himself - the feeling that it wasn't his responsibility, other people to love. But when that was suddenly taken away from him - where could he go but with Dean?
John became a hunter, like his father had hated. Even if John didn't know about hunting, he knew how his dad probably felt about crass violence. John was a soldier, too, which may have not been a choice, but for someone so fond of leather and rock and the rebellious stance, not to mention forging documents, he may have been able to get out of it had it not been much of a choice. Perhaps john became even more of a hunter, to deal with Sam leaving. The same way he did before, and also perhaps as a sort of revenge. Sam didn't want him going off and being in danger - he'll amp up even that, he'll put hunting the yellow eyed demon into gear. Perhaps he'd even started getting used to not finding him, just being a hunter with his boys, and that rattled him into searching and trying harder again, being that invested in it.
I know I'm forgetting something, but I need to post this... might add later. Also - I need to warn in advance that this topic is touchy to me, so I might at some point need to stop participating in a discussion, if there is one. Hope I don't need that, but just want to say in advance that I might. Re abandonment and all...
When Dean lost him mom, perhaps he put all his energy into the people around him, his brother, particularly. I can imagine baby Dean thinking - as miserable and lost as I'm feeling, baby Sammy is even worst off. And putting all he had into making things good for Sammy. The way, perhaps, John was too grief stricken to be for Dean. To talk it through, to validate Dean's feelings. So, perhaps, to Dean, dealing with loss was mostly about taking care of others, or trying to make things OK. Perhaps the way he sort of turned into a substitute mary was a way of making her not gone, for John, for baby Sammy, and though he'd probably not admit him, for Dean too.
When sam left for Stanford, the other Winchesters seem to have dealt with it in a similar way. John told Sam that, basically, "he was dead to him" - if you leave, never come back. Perhaps he was reliving the way his father left him, the way Mary did. .. perhaps that was his way of dealing with sam's message, that Dean was dying - pulling back, perhaps being mad - at Dean, at whoever did it to him, probably at Sam for telling john about it, for suddenly being there after hurting john so much by leaving, and for giving john grief for *John* not being there, after all those years Sam wasn't.
Dean dealt with Sam leaving, perhaps, by taking extra care of John. Prhaps he was more like Sam when Sam was gone, like he did with mary - I wonder. But the main way he dealt with Sam being gone is making it not be, not so. He brought Sam back into Dean's life from Stanford. Brought Sam back into Dean's life from death. It didn't matter what the price was for Dean, the way it perhaps didn't matter how Dean felt about taking care of this baby instead of giving his own feelings room
But, of course, it was all about Dean's feelings - he needed Sammy back even if Dean was gonna be gone - he needed to fix that abandonment. If Dean himself was leaving, it wasn't that bad. If he was leaving, it's a bit like it had been his choice - and since he made the deal - it was.
As for Sam, I always got the feeling he dealt with grief better than the others. Not sure how. That is why the whole "he's just like John now" thing didn't exactly work for me. I had the feeling he dealt with what happened to Jess betterthan John had. That perhaps John became a hunter to stay sort-of-together, Sam did it perhaps out of guilt, missing being part of his family, missing Dean. OTOH, I always feel when Sam left, he didn't truly let go of his family. He didn't grieve and become a different person. Not at all. Part of being away was knowing he could call Dean and get back. Knowing at any moment Dean could come get him, and like it or not, Sam will go. Perhaps it wsa, like many writers say, a way of not having to deal, daily, with the dread of John or Dean being killed. But I am pretty sure he was still dealing with that dread, along with major guilt - even guilt in advance, knowing that if they got killed part of him will blame himself, and waiting for that blow. He was trying to build something else for himself - the feeling that it wasn't his responsibility, other people to love. But when that was suddenly taken away from him - where could he go but with Dean?
John became a hunter, like his father had hated. Even if John didn't know about hunting, he knew how his dad probably felt about crass violence. John was a soldier, too, which may have not been a choice, but for someone so fond of leather and rock and the rebellious stance, not to mention forging documents, he may have been able to get out of it had it not been much of a choice. Perhaps john became even more of a hunter, to deal with Sam leaving. The same way he did before, and also perhaps as a sort of revenge. Sam didn't want him going off and being in danger - he'll amp up even that, he'll put hunting the yellow eyed demon into gear. Perhaps he'd even started getting used to not finding him, just being a hunter with his boys, and that rattled him into searching and trying harder again, being that invested in it.
I know I'm forgetting something, but I need to post this... might add later. Also - I need to warn in advance that this topic is touchy to me, so I might at some point need to stop participating in a discussion, if there is one. Hope I don't need that, but just want to say in advance that I might. Re abandonment and all...
