citrusjava | One thing about 10x13

Haven't seen it yet but can I ask what you mean by Dean being British :))

I was just amused by the long Spike Sherlock overcoats instead of the usual jackets.
IINM they were being FBI agents, so of course, long overcoats.

I hope you enjoy it!

Oh but the overcoats were HOT :)

The overcoats were fantastic! So pretty!

Clearly, Sherlock/Dean is endgame. :)

I didn't like the episode very much, probably the worst one yet this season if you ask me, and the pink laptop also stood out to me the most. Now Dean has a pink phone and Sam has a pink laptop, it's a thing. :)

Did you really find the jokes offensive? I kind of thought they were cute, but I'm a weird behind-the-times Gen Y so maybe I missed the bite.

Yeah, and the pink computer was pink! Those were nice noteworthy things!

Then Sherlock can take the mark from Dean, and just not be bothered!

YEAH!!!!

All of these things!

Yes, definitely. they made me very uncomfortable. And they were so bad... you know - Robbie made some age jokes on Fan Fiction that I didn't like but at least were... IDK, loving, more clever.... this was just bad. I hate "oh, teens are so stupid/shallow/television teens", you know? I don't know anyone like that.. Especially jokes about technology and the generation gap. And I hate jokes about Dean's age, cause I feel they hit too close to home, and I'm worried about the show's longevity and so forth. One of my favorite artists is David Bowie, and I saw (a bit of) what it did to him when all the world suddenly decided he was old, and instead of asking him about his career everyone started asking him about his age. He really tried to handle it well, and he's one of the stronger public figures I've seen deal with that, and he broke and stopped publishing anything for about ten years. That's horrible, and it matters. That needs to stop. It's definitely not worth some bad jokes.

Edited 2015-02-11 14:36 (UTC)

I love that the show has gone on so long that the network suddenly has a show like this, with people olde than 27. It's awesome. And I like that it makes people uncomfortable enough to feel they need to comment, but the comments are meant to other, to control the situation, to make this show the exception, to hurt. I hate that. Hate it.

I didn't find any of them offensive, but I am old enough to be Sam and Dean's mother. (And yet, what I feel about that can't exactly be classified as maternal. But I digress.) I liked the generation gap conversation between Dean and the sorority girl.

Is Sam over the hill now, too? Does anyone still poke on FB? Is it still even an option? That 4.5 year age difference between Sam and Dean has been played up ever since Dean asked Sam whether Myspace was a porn site in Season 1, but now I'm wondering if Sam's got to step up his contemporary culture knowledge, too.

I hate "oh, teens are so stupid/shallow/television teens", you know? I definitely hear you there. The giggly dorm-talk and the selfie scenes made me uncomfortable, too, and seemed so trite. And I guess I hadn't thought of them being age-specific jokes. Like I said, my age and my technological literacy do not match, so I heard them more as jokes about the latter than jokes about the generation gap. Thinking back over the episode, though, you're right. And I absolutely, absolutely agree that age has nothing to do with relevance, and that generational stereotypes are beyond annoying.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, and I hope it was obvious that my question was honest not troll-y. I can be dense sometimes. :)

I support those feelings :)

As for the poking joke - I'm guessing Sam's gonna be getting some of that crap his way soon (Jared mentioned getting some of that in a convention, so yeah), but I understood it as a dig at Dean - he's supposedly only noww learning about poking, when nobody does it.

<3 <3 <3 <3

Whilst I went with the flow on this one, like you I found some things jarring - and half hearted. I read someone's comment somewhere saying these two writers in particular don't seem to have realised that the two men they are writing about have been through a TON of shit since Season 1, so simply repeating jokes that worked when Dean and Sam were ten years younger just sound crass now.

Edited 2015-02-11 22:08 (UTC)

I get that.... the world changed some, too. Some of Dean's earlier characterizations wouldn't fly today, and that is not a bad thing, love Dean as I might. And yea, seriously, can they please stop giving these people episodes? If they need to hire another write instead, and they're too dumb to take someone from fandom, tempt Jane Espenson over!

Agreed about the writers, though they're only my second least favorite writing team. You can guess who the least favorite is.

One thing I'm very much over is Dean's appalling table manners. Yeah, I sound like Emily Post, I realize that. :) But what's up with the face-stuffing, dude? At least the powdered sugar donuts made me want to lick the sugar right off that mouth, but noodles? Just, yuck.

Yeah, Man's Best Friend with Benefits - no. No.

Personally I'm fond of Dean' table manners, but to each her own etc!

I somewhat enjoyed the episode--I liked the early season style monster of the week, and most of the interaction between Sam and Dean. I've seen people complaining that Dean's leering was overdone, but I think that may have been deliberate? I mean, the show does get cartoonish sometimes in how it portrays Dean's appetites, but coming after an episode where we saw Dean announce he was going to take better care of himself, followed by an episode where he fell off the wagon with alcohol, I think maybe the hyper-intense hunger and horniness were supposed to be Dean sublimating his lust for violence into more acceptable desires, or else just losing control of his id in general. Maybe I'm giving the show too much credit.

The one teen scene that really rubbed me wrong was the second kill with the two girls. I'm pretty sure it was deliberate caricature, but it was painfully unfunny. Edlund was the only writer who ever pulled off broad comedy, as far as I'm concerned, and only sometimes. I generally wish the show would stay away from it. I see your point that it can be kind of limiting and unpleasant to treat anyone over 30 like they might as well head off to the retirement home, but it amused me to see Sam and Dean framed as "old," because on a network or cable show they'd be the young up-and-comers. It's only on the CW that 35--at least for a man--is over the hill. And it reminded me of my life in fandom, which is the one place where, at the ripe old age of 32, I regularly feel like an old woman yelling at the kids to get off her lawn.

I may have liked it disproportionately because I watched it live, though. I've watched the last two episodes when they aired after spending the past season or so watching them on DVR, and it made a big difference to me. I like to think that post-episode spoilers and wank don't affect my enjoyment, but it seems like they do. I'm definitely trying to watch the show live from now on, to the extent real life permits.

I agree with so many things, but this Dean stuff irritates me. Like, remember the Season 7 Dean who learned aLOT about the net (from Frank) and actually made Sam jealous? I do not like dumb!Dean b/c He is NOT DUMB. And at this stage of the game, as others have said, repeating season 1 tropes when they were still adolescents (with adult living for sure, hunting, etc) thisi s just a big sigh for me, flare of irritation. I can support we should see Dean struggling with base instincts, but Dean is a grown man who's been to Hell, tortured, torturer, etc but I am supposed to really find it funny that he can't control himself around Co-eds? I enjoyed these things ten years ago, but please don't cartoon my boys. Or, don't OFFENSIVELY cartoon them, you know? Sorry, I am wanking, I just don't think that I'll revisit this episode, and I own every one. Like MBBWB, no rewatch for me!

Huge agree here. Also, your icon has effectively stopped my day before one conscious productive hour yet! UMMMF!
(seriously? WTF Jared. and WTF exfled? . Life ruiners. LOL)

remember the Season 7 Dean who learned aLOT about the net (from Frank) and actually made Sam jealous?
O, I remember! That pissed me off some too. I like that Dean has flaws annd so forth, but that just felt like a gratuitous, cliche dig. I hate that they make the boys dumb - they make mistakes and should be shown to make mistakes, but not - things they would probably know beetter than to do, with no good reason, you know?

please don't cartoon my boys

Exactly. I'm ok with Dean looking at women, and I'd like more season 1 characterization back (like prank wars and brother banter and some of the depth the characters has then too ) - but this feels like it's just taking away from characters who are so wonderfully interesting, without giving anything wonderful instead of that, even. You can make funny episodes without flattening the characters - and those were funnier, too! I want to laugh cause I can identify with things, or cause 'it's so them', or just - I wanna laugh respectfully, not this cliche offensive stuff that's not even them!

I would like the show to be more like early seasons - Impala shots and brother melodrama, and sure, make food jokes and have Dean flirting - I don't mind - but.... remember the series was good in early seasons, please?

Aww, yay, I'm glad you enjoyed it,a and that you might start watching the eps live !

I liked that there was a lot of interaction between Sam and Dean too, I'd like to have that evey or almost every episode, oo, but the writing.... I didn't mind the ogling much, I missed part of it and don';t feel like checking back for it, I didn';t understaand what Dean said. But I don;'t generally mind Dean's flirting or checking women out.... IDK, I just don't. I agree that it was over the top, probably intentionally, that just really didn't work, IMO. Sometimes the show is a bit cartoonish in ways that could perhaps work - this just really really didn't work for me, sorry.... felt loveless, felt - when Robbie writes ridiculous stuff, or for sure in eps like Mystery Spot of Changing Channels, even The French Mistake - it comes with so much depth, understanding of the characters and the world, so much love - it is present in there! This just felt - I felt it was - cheap and shallow.

I believe you are giving the show way too much credit, but it is beautiful and just a lovely (loving) interpretation, I'm on board with you .

The one teen scene that really rubbed me wrong was the second kill with the two girls. I'm pretty sure it was deliberate caricature, but it was painfully unfunny

Agreed. That was my breaking point... The jokes about Dean and computers made me really uncomfortable, but then this was just - made it a theme .

Edlund was the only writer who ever pulled off broad comedy

Interesting. I give Carver, for all I have problems with his current work, some credit there too, though you make an interesting point, I'd like to ponder!

it amused me to see Sam and Dean framed as "old," because on a network or cable show they'd be the young up-and-comers

I really realy hope so. There have been *so* many jokes about that it makes me so worried and uncomfortable, and J2 have both been talking about that - I just. Ugh. I don't want the show to go off the air cause the cast is "so old", I don;t want them to try to make it young o hip, I don;t want J2's careers to disappear after this cause they';re supposedly so old, and as actors would probably have beenn better served had they left after 5-7 seasons fo a new show... ugh. I really do worry.... I wrote somewhere else here - I saw David Bowie go through that and it was horrible (well, it seemed so and he disappeared for 10 years) - I don't want this to happen. People are so mean.... And yeah, it does have to do with my experiences too - I've been being told I'm over the hill since I was 23-24 for sure, perhaps earlier. ATM I keep being told if I want any job in academia I'd better find a way to squeeze the next five years of studying out of existence, or be willing to leave M and move across the world. That's terrifying. So yeah, I'm worried about that sort of thing.

And it reminded me of my life in fandom, which is the one place where, at the ripe old age of 32, I regularly feel like an old woman yelling at the kids to get off her lawn.

:) Kids today with their fancy female Thor and Facebook poking!

Yea, ok, sorry about the rant. I'm just worried. Jared talked about being pressured to color his hair cause it's apparently going gray? WTF?! Where? Eh, I like guys in gray long hair.

One thing about 10x13

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