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citrusjavaSo, in NJcon, someone said they were bi, and asked the guys about the characters possibly being interpreted as bi. The room, and Tumblr (WHY did I try to rejoin Tumbler? :/), and sadly - Jensen, all made a face at the question as something the fan had no right to ask, should have known better etc.
I find this so hurtful. The only reason for treating this as so far from the realm of legitimate behavior is biphobia. Had they said "I'm in love with my boyfriend, tell me about the characters possibly being interpreted as in love with girls", it would have been considered sweet.
If, as the mighty Tumblr says, Jensen is uncomfortable with such questions, it's also not ok. I'd understand, had they been about him, but they're not. Regardless, the boys very often have to deal with questions they don't like, and usually do it pretty gracefully. If it's *that* hard for Jensen to deal with, fine. But not as an "it's wrong to talk about not being straight". As an "I'm sorry, I have some hangups, I'm trying to learn how to get over them". From there to everyone in the room, and on Tumbler, treating talking about our *life*, our love and so forth, as something that should be forbidden in fandom - fuck, this escapism thing isn't working that well. You know what? Season 8 Dean would have been kinder and more compassionate than that. More open minded. Dean. #@$%.
ETA: It's someone from a marginalized group telling you that something you do is meaningful to them, makes them feel like they could be just a little represented. Not as alone. It's *meaningful*. Because of that. It's a huge thing to do for a person. That very panel they talked so nicely about art being meaningful, and SPN as something that could give a person something to hold onto, to want to live. Do I really need to cite bisexual suicide statistics? Cause they're high, frightening high. This makes me so very sad.
I find this so hurtful. The only reason for treating this as so far from the realm of legitimate behavior is biphobia. Had they said "I'm in love with my boyfriend, tell me about the characters possibly being interpreted as in love with girls", it would have been considered sweet.
If, as the mighty Tumblr says, Jensen is uncomfortable with such questions, it's also not ok. I'd understand, had they been about him, but they're not. Regardless, the boys very often have to deal with questions they don't like, and usually do it pretty gracefully. If it's *that* hard for Jensen to deal with, fine. But not as an "it's wrong to talk about not being straight". As an "I'm sorry, I have some hangups, I'm trying to learn how to get over them". From there to everyone in the room, and on Tumbler, treating talking about our *life*, our love and so forth, as something that should be forbidden in fandom - fuck, this escapism thing isn't working that well. You know what? Season 8 Dean would have been kinder and more compassionate than that. More open minded. Dean. #@$%.
ETA: It's someone from a marginalized group telling you that something you do is meaningful to them, makes them feel like they could be just a little represented. Not as alone. It's *meaningful*. Because of that. It's a huge thing to do for a person. That very panel they talked so nicely about art being meaningful, and SPN as something that could give a person something to hold onto, to want to live. Do I really need to cite bisexual suicide statistics? Cause they're high, frightening high. This makes me so very sad.
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no subject
Date: 2013-05-06 02:47 am (UTC)In regards to bi-phobic, I can easily understand that impression. It appears that way. It is likely that there is much more going on beneath the surface than what 'appears'.
Please, remember... we are dealing with a man in his 30's, an actor with a public persona (that has admitted to being private and shy) who is about to become a father.
Issues like this seem simple when it is just you that gets dragged along after whatever it is you say or do. Things like this gain a level of "seriously scary" when you consider how it might affect your children. As an fyi - my baby sister - lesbian. My daughter - bisexual, 5 on the Kinsey. Me - also bisexual, but...
To explain my response, I have to explain something else. When my daughter was 14, and we were driving, she grabbed my hand and told me she had to tell me something. She looked scared, and I held her hand as she said "Mama. I'm bisexual." To this day, she says she has the best "coming out of the closet" story ever. There is one reason. My response was to grasp her hand in mine, bring it to my knee and pat it, nod and say, "Me too." We then had a lovely chat about the feminine form and all of its complexity and beauty and I learned more about myself and her in that conversation than I knew of her in the last four years of her life and she learned things of me she had never known, that I finally shared with her.
My daughter had no idea that I was bisexual until she, effectively, came of age. Why? Why is a simple question when the reason I withheld it is so damned complicated.
When she was four years old, my husband and I had a girlfriend. This lovely lady was **incredibly** demonstrative. That worried me, only because my daughter reacted badly when she got "too close" or was "too touchy" with either of us while she was in the room. My daughter was four. I had no idea, and no precedent, for how to deal with this situation - in any way. When Valentine's Day arrived, and I put the cards she gave my husband and I up on the mantle, my beautiful little girl came to me, took my hand, walked me to the mantle and asked me why I got a card from a girl that had the "love skunk" on it.
I froze. Seriously froze. All I could think was that this would undermine her concept of our marriage, that it had the capacity, with such a small thing, to screw *everything* up. I panicked. In panicking, I broke up with a loving woman who did not deserve such treatment (and had no children of her own so could not really understand my fears, though she tried) and I closed that part of myself off for a decade. A decade.
The day I told my daughter I was bisexual, I unpacked a box in front of her when we got home. Pictures of the three of us (My Handsome, me and our lady. First time my daughter ever saw me flirting with anyone else, even if it was a moment through a lens). Cards. Notions. Gifts. I explained that I was afraid that, if I told her I liked both men and women, but it did not impact the love I had, the devotion I had, to her father that she would not understand - and I apologized. Not only to her, but to myself and I followed that up with an email to the lovely lady that was brave enough to remain my friend despite how I had treated her.
It is easy for any one side to judge a situation. The only safe place is a place of non-judgement, lest we be as guilty as they are. I learned this lesson one of the hardest ways possible and I hold it near and dear as one of the best. I changed *me* for a decade for fear of the unknown and the want to not need to find the words. Never again will I make that mistake.
And ack... it still scares me to post this. I just sat here for several minutes hovering over the "post new comment button" not daring to press it. Yet still, I will. My child is grown, and I am who I am. Sometimes, we come into our own only in our given time and it means no offense to anyone else, no matter who is watching/listening. I greatly admire your fearlessness. Generations that preceded you can learn from it. I have. *presses the damned button*
no subject
Date: 2013-05-06 03:04 am (UTC){hugs}
Thank you for the lovely, touching story. Thank you for posting it, and thank you for your bravery.
When it comes to Jensen - it does hurt me, but honestly, what you hint at, or something, I accept as a possibility. Whatever he has to deal with, is his.
OTOH, whatever the reason for being hurtful towards someone weaker than you - you still have. And it still made me cry. Cause I really need allies. If only fantasy ones.
But beyond Jensen - fandom :-(
I hope for better than that from fandom :-(
no subject
Date: 2013-05-06 03:09 am (UTC)Seriously, thanks so much for what you wrote <3
no subject
Date: 2013-05-06 03:36 am (UTC)Oh sweetheart, your response caused me to burst into tears. You have allies beyond measure. Even those afraid to speak aloud speak with their votes. There has never been any measure of any law that has been offered to any government within any area I live in that I did not strongly vote against nor actively campaign against. While I might not have felt safe living out loud and proud, I never let my regard for social acceptance affect my vote - and I am in the crazy majority. I promise you that.
You have every right to expect better of fandom. EVERY right.
I am grateful you posted what you did. I feel very blessed to call myself your fan/friend.
A person can be smart. *People* are stupid. Blessed be - the "persons" are now standing up and speaking for the people. We are growing and we are learning.
*squishes you fiercely* I will always support you.
no subject
Date: 2013-05-06 11:02 pm (UTC)You made me cry too.
I was reading, this, you know, battle-jaded "I've heard it all", then before I knew it I was filthy-sobbing at your words <3
Oh, and then I started reading your reply again, this time to seriously ans wer, and started crying again. Third time, forth time in class - fifth time in class – 'gonna answer later'. So, yeah – took a while ;)
Your commitment to voting is so touching to me, and really meaningful. And having to hide so much for so long must have been so hard {hug}
I'd feel privileged to call myself your friend {}
It sure does not feel like I have a lot of allies, honestly. Between being pansexual (like bi, only including attraction to people whose gender is non-binary)
And pretty much no one understanding what I'm talking about when I say my own gender is not binary... :/
*squishes back*
You rock and are awesome. Thank you.